December 13, 2015 — mcclaughry

Karl Menninger Quote about Child Sexual Abuse Being Good For Their Mental Health – Proof

In The Connection Between Synanon and Scientology – Part 3: Dark Matter I talked about the slavemaster goings-on in China and the sick behavior of two men, Yardley and White.

– Quoting my post –

Let’s just say Yardley was more of a representative example of the kind of people that willingly work for the slavemasters, than he is of any true American.

He was so bad, that Tai-Li literally used him as an example of what “kind” of American not to work with after that.

Throughout his stay with Tai Li, Yardley chronically complained and browbeat the Chinese. Tai Li knew that this must not be repeated in any future dealings with Americans.

In this connection, Tai Li was determined that only those Americans with a strong sense of discipline and self-control would be asked to work with him in the future. This was particularly relevant when it came to the issue of women.⁴

When dealing with Herbert Yardley, Tai Li’s biggest headache was over maintaining intelligence security without offending Yardley’s seemingly uncontrollable urge for sexual exploitation outside the BIS compound.

At the time, Yardley was famous for purchasing young Chinese girls as sexual slaves and organizing orgies in his own house, thus gaining popularity among some foreign journalists and young American diplomats in the U.S. embassy, where, a young diplomat once flippantly remarked, masturbation was “the favorite indoor sport.”

Among Yardley’s most frequent patrons to his orgies in Chungking was his best friend, Theodore White of Time, Inc. ⁵

In the end, using threats and loud protests, Yardley had been able to force Tai Li to let him keep his own “comfort” cottage outside the BIS in downtown Chungking.

– OSS in China, Chapter Chungking Fog p. 47

Not exactly the “good guy” portrayed in this movie (Back to 1942) is he.

Because what they really were was –

Yardley and White – the child sex slave human traffickers

yardley

White

– End Quote –

I had then added a note that said:

Later on…slavemaster attack chihuahua psychiatrist Karl Menninger tried to say child sexual abuse favors “the development of social abilities”.

At the time I wrote that, I had come across multiple authors quoting Karl Menninger as saying the following –

…but when the experience actually stimulates the child erotically, it would appear … that it may favor rather than inhibit the development of social capabilities and mental health in the so-called victims.

All of which happily cited some official-sounding books, but since I could find no easily accessible actual proof that he did indeed say that, while I continued working on my Dark Matter post I decided to start tracking down these alleged sources I kept seeing.

As you can see, it’s quite an inflammatory quote. Not that I don’t believe the slavemaster pet attack chihouhas (psychiatrists) have such a view, it just was almost too good to be true that one was dumb enough (or arrogant enough) to actually put that in writing!

And so I began to dig in, ordering in various books etc., and since it turned into quite the interesting little side foray, I decided that what I found deserved it’s own post.

Note: NONE of the sources quoting this actually cited the true original source. They all quoted each others books. If I was being overly simplistic about this rather strange and repeated omission on the part of so many professionals, I suppose one could jump to the conclusion that they are all either just terminally lazy or covering up something – but I don’t believe that to be the case.

I think this started with one person not citing it properly, and it went on from there. But the fact that it has been allowed to go on this long, has resulted in obscuring the full force of the original source, the accurate one actually by Menninger, and it has acted in a weird way to lessen the impact of immediate proof staring you in the face of that he did say this.

That is what I intend to remedy here, because this guy deserves to be dragged out of the dark closets of history and be seen for what he was.

Time to unlock some of those closets…

Let’s start with an example of the kind of thing that I was coming across – this is from a psychologist.

Likewise, Karl Menninger, addressing the issue of sexual activity between children and adults, once noted that “when the experience actually stimulates the child erotically, it would appear … that it may favor rather than inhibit the development of social capabilities and mental health in the so-called victims” (cited by Dziech & Schudson, 1989, p. 8).

– Therapist-patient sex as sex abuse: Six scientific, professional, and practical dilemmas in addressing victimization and rehabilitation. By Pope, Kenneth S., Professional Psychology: Research and Practice, Vol 21(4), Aug 1990, 227-239.

The first thing that I did was that I ordered in the book that Kenneth cites – On trial: America’s courts and their treatment of sexually abused children, Billie Wright Dziech, Charles B. Schudson – it did indeed have that quote on page 8.

However, it gives the reference for the quote as another book – “as quoted in N. Gager and E. Schurr, Sexual Assault: Confronting Rape in America 1976, p. 45″ – so then I ordered that one in.

: Sexual Assault: Confronting Rape in America

: Menninger quotes

Quotes from p. 45 Gager and Schurr –

Somewhere to the right of the “normality” apologists for incest are those like psychiatrist Karl Menninger who suggest that early sex with adults may actually contribute to mental health. Arguing that children are not irreparably ruined by exposure to such experiences at an early age, Menninger refers to a follow-up study done by two well-known Freudian psychiatrists on adults who had been child victims. Because these adults had turned out to be “distinguished and unusually charming and attractive in their outward personalities,” Menninger concludes that early sex doesn’t have to be harmful.

…traumatic only when connected with deep hostilities……but when the experience actually stimulates the child erotically, it would appear … that it may favor rather than inhibit the development of social capabilities and mental health in the so-called victims.

The underlined part was an interesting surprise to see – it is not quoted by anyone else anywhere as far as I know, and it is one hell of a nasty little statement.

It ever so carefully tries to pin blame on any child who gets sexually abused and who HATES the person and what was done to them. It positions such a child as having “deep hostilities” aka anti-social behavior aka a lovely little circular logic set-up that the child is mentally ill for having such a reaction!

You know, other than the obviously preferred result of the child who is sexually abused should have the view and attitude that goes with being “erotically stimulated.”

Sick. Sick. Sick!

No child LIKES sexual abuse – that’s not their reaction.

This is.

It’s really unbelievable to me that he could even imply (let alone straight out say) that this is somehow beneficial.

And…

This book doesn’t give a source ref either for the quote.

However, in perusing this particular book further, I came across some mentions of another Menninger quote talking about rape. After a whole lot of serious research I finally tracked that down to a law book that is apparently still being used in some sort of bible-like status in America’s courts.

I was hoping maybe this first quote would be in there too, it wasn’t, but the other one is interesting and on-topic too because it clearly shows the slavemaster mind-set that is actually still held by many people even up til today.

I found that there’s a letter written by Karl Menninger dated September 5, 1933 repeatedly cited as being quoted in John Wigmore’s legal volumes, EVIDENCE IN TRIALS AT COMMON LAW – Volume 3A page 744.

A couple examples of how others are citing this –

Statement of Dr. Karl Menninger, quoted in 3A WIGMORE, supra note 91, at 744 – PDF page 20
Dr. Karl A. Menninger (Menninger Clinic of Psychiatry and Neurology, Topeka,. Kansas); MS. letter Sept. 5, 1933. See 3 Wigmore, Evidence (3d ed. 1940) §924a – PDF page 4

A helpful librarian at a law school sent me scans of the relevant pages from Wigmore’s volume 3A, which I include here in case anyone else finds it as helpful as I did to see this “in black and white”.

Here’s a PDF – Wigmore rules of evidence rape vol 3a

Cover page –

Take note of this on p. 2 of the PDF –

No judge should ever let a sex offense charge go to the jury unless the female complainant’s social history and mental makeup have been examined and testified to by a qualified physician.

I find that highly significant and somewhat horrifying, because basically by doing that you are quite literally trying the person before you try them – understand? That’s the point of a trial, to openly hear all the evidence in open court in front of a jury of one’s peers. Not to sneak around behind closed doors and have it be that based on some two-bit psychiatrist’s evaluation (often ripe for political and other influences) that a rape victim could literally be denied their day in court and the rapist walks off scott-free.

That’s just plain wrong.

On page 10 of the PDF, we find the cited reference of Menninger’s letter on page 744 of Wigmore Volume 3A –

Dr. KARL A. MENNINGER (Menninger Clinic of Psychiatry and Neurology. Topeka, Kan.); MS. letter Sept. 5, 1933³

[Ref ³ says: This and the other letters were obtained through the courtesy of Dr. Harold]

Every girl who enters a plausible but unproved story of rape should be required to have a psychiatric examination. As you know, I have elsewhere expressed myself publicly as favoring the psychiatric examination of criminals and those charged with crime, and I agree with you that this should be extended to include some of the individuals who make criminal charges, not only of rape but also of malpractice and other personal attacks.

The reason I think that rape in particular belongs in this category is one well known to psychologists, namely, that fantasies of being raped are exceedingly common in women, indeed one may almost say that they are probably universal.

By this I mean that most women, if we may judge from our clinical experience, entertain more or less consciously at one time or another fleeting fantasies or fears that they are being or will be attacked by a man.

Of course, the normal woman who has such a fantasy does not confuse it with reality, but it is so easy for some neurotic individuals to translate their fantasies into actual beliefs and memory falsifications that l think a safeguard should certainly be placed upon this type of criminal charge.

I am personally acquainted with the case of a man who at the age of 70 or close thereto was charged by a mentally abnormal spinster in the late twenties of having raped her in his office and having repeated the crime several times in one day. There were many elements of obvious absurdity in the story, but notwithstanding this, the man was sentenced to the federal prison for a long sentence and so far as I know is still there.

While it is certainly true that there are people who would lie and attack someone with a false criminal charge, like this woman for example, the courts figure that out soon enough and begin forcing the person to get permission by the judge before filing a suit when they have a repeated history of doing such things, as such a “neurotic” (as Menninger puts it) would likely have a tendency to do. Meaning do something many times, not just once.

But still, it is the whole point of a court case to ascertain the truth. It is a complete travesty of justice to allow the entrance of quite literally a hidden pseudo-court on the side where psychiatrists an hold court like in medieval times. Playing the roles of judge, jury, and executioner – as the saying goes.

This is not some conspiracy theory – many of the more so-called prominent psychiatrists do really think of themselves in this way and have revealed themselves in that light to their colleagues, but not usually to the general public.

Psychiatrist R.D. Laing talked about his experiences while training to be a psychiatrist in his book Wisdom, Madness and Folly, The Making of a Psychiatrist.

Psychiatry has many functions. …It is the only branch of medicine that treats people against their will, in any way it likes, if it deems it necessary. It is the only branch of medicine that imprisons patients, if judged necessary.

…I agree with the anti-psychiatric thesis that by and large psychiatry functions to exclude and repress those elements society wants excluded and repressed.

…If all goes routinely, as it routinely does, they are not asked to answer to anyone but themselves. It is their job to make all the diagnoses they make.

These diagnoses give the psychiatrist more power over the diagnosed than a judge has over a prisoner he condemns to prison.

…In court…psychiatric opinions are taken into serious consideration but not necessarily adopted. Yet out of court, these same psychiatrists, with the same opinions, are invested with more power over persons whom only they say are to be patients or not than magistrates or judges over any accused. I was frightened by the power invested in me as a psychiatrist and by the way I was expected to use it.

Even more, I was frightened by the mind behind a lot of psychiatric theory and practice.

– R.D. Laing, as quoted in Religion, Psychiatry and ‘The Abyss of Difference’ by Virginia McClaughry

Clearly it seems a very bad idea to allow such men to ‘hold court’ over whether a person even gets to have their case tried as it should be – really look at the first line of what Menninger said again:

Every girl who enters a plausible but unproved story of rape should be required to have a psychiatric examination.

I also wanted to briefly touch on the completely arrogant MALE FANTASY that he is expressing here, that women universally fantasize about being ‘raped’.

I seriously think for him to say that shows just how twisted some men’s minds are, and when you see some of his later quotes about children being raped, well…let’s just say this guy is who needs his mind tested, if anyone does.

Sure, sometimes when faced with seeing what a bunch of effete, perverted, sado-masochistic and misogynist slavemaster religious and “nobility” have managed to infect the male population of the world with – yes, some of us women like to think of a world where a man can be a man, strong and independent, yet can perceive a woman correctly, and know when some male power being brought into play is not only acceptable but empowering as a female.

That is NOT a rape fantasy.

It is a fantasy, a dream, of a man worthy of the woman’s potential for what she can offer him should he see into her heart properly – and such a man would never, ever, ever, condone rape – Ah, but Menninger will, as you will soon see.

Rape is a terrible, violent, and heinous violation of the woman’s inner space, it is a betrayal of humanity actually.

It is no minor thing to be spent the day whiling away in supposed fantasizing about. One thing that is probably a better example of a universal response from women, is that you will not ever see in truth, a woman saying how ‘great’ it was to be raped.

That is a MALE fantasy – a particularly perverse one – to think such a thing is even possible to gain a woman’s heart.

Note – One wonders if it ever occurred to him that the women ‘patients’ who told him such fantasies, having correctly ascertained (as women often do) just what his particular weakness is, told him these fantasies about being raped just to fuck with his head while he thinks he’s in control. He strikes me as the type (and evidence says he did) to fall for that easily. Perverted power-monger types invariably have some sort of weird control issues when it comes to sex, and it isn’t hard to ‘read’ them because for one thing, they’re so obsessed with hiding it that it practically acts like a neon sign to those who aren’t pretending they can’t know such things.

I was able to obtain the original letter from Hulbert to Menninger, requesting his input for Wigmore’s book, and Menningers reply partially quoted above, from the Kansas Historical Society. So now you can see that too.

Here’s the 2 letters in PDF form – Menninger reply to Hulbert

Here’s the two letters in image form –

I probably should bring out another person’s letter that was included in Wigmore’s book (right after Menninger’s) and this guy is who L. Ron Hubbard thought was such a swell man, one of his best mentors and all.

Dr. William Alanson White – head of St. Elizabeth’s psychiatric hospital (one of the worst of the worst as far as abuses).

Right under Menninger’s letter, you can see that he wrote –

Dr. WILLIAM A. WHITE (U.S. Department of the Interior, Supt. [Super-intendent] St. Elizabeth’s Hospital, Washington, D.C.); MS. letter Sept. 7, 1933:

Accusations of rape, unless there is perfectly clear evidence of an assault, are open to suspicion.

Necessarily they must always be treated as open to suspicion if the accusation is a purely verbal one unsupported by corroborative evidence.

[So they are to be judged guilty of lying without any evidence that they are?]

Such accusations are doubly difficult to deal with when it is remembered that the medical evidence sustaining or otherwise such accusations is proverbially not dependable and inadequate. In the few cases that I have had any knowledge of, accusations have been lodged without corroborative evidence under circumstances where it was solely a question as between the word of the accuser and of the defendant; the assaults had been alleged to take place under circumstances which made it impossible for anybody else to have knowledge of what might or might not have happened.

If such an accusation is made against a person who is perhaps unpopular, a school teacher for example, and the accusing girl is plausible and has other assets, sentiment is very apt to be with
her. One has, therefore, to weigh all the possibilities of a case with great care and to realize that such accusations frequently have no foundation whatever in fact and originate entirely in the mind of the accuser.

[Now he’s going to tip-toe around the “I wish to be raped” idea/defense as well]

The origins of such fantastic ideas are wishful and in response to the great natural urge which would force every individual along the path of his biological destiny, but they take various forms dependent upon the individual make-up of the person involved. There may be what appears to be a simple wish-fulfillment at the bottom of such accusation; there may, on the contrary, be a very
definite aggressive tendency addressed against the person accused.

[See, it’s either the person wishing they were raped or it’s their ‘aggressive tendencies” – this is much like what Menninger said when he said that child sexual abuse/rape was: “…traumatic only when connected with deep hostilities“]

There may be other components entering into the picture, such as a more or less childish desire for notoriety, and, in defective people, a more or less complete lack of appreciation of the significance of the accusation and the consequences which might naturally be expected to flow therefrom, so that defective individuals will accuse people for the personal satisfaction of a passing notoriety, without
the slightest feeling of responsibility for the fact that they may jeopardize the lives or liberty of such people. . . .

In all cases where accusations of the character under discussion are made without corroborative testimony of a sufficiently conclusive character, examinations should be conducted of a sort that will tend to disclose the existence of such tendencies as have been indicated above; for it must be realized that, as repulsive as many of the things are which people do and think and wish, the human being is the host of a great many anti-social desires and is, aside from all of the good things with which he is credited, also the host of definite, aggressive instincts which come into play at appropriate times under the peculiar conditions which are calculated to stimulate or sensitize them. In those patients who have made false accusations based upon pathological tendencies it is usually not difficult to discover at least a suspicion of their existence early in a psychiatric examination, especially if the patients will collaborate in that examination, as they not infrequently will. Many of these patients, particularly such patients where the dream events have been carried over into the waking life, are so definitely pathological as to be obviously psychotic, whereas certain other cases are almost equally obviously neurotic, particularly of the hysterical type, and a sufficient knowledge of their history will disclose similar activities, especially along the lines of pathological lying, which ought to cast grave suspicion on their statements ….

Many well known cases which have attracted wide public interest and which have resulted in mob violence have indicated, or should have, the extreme prejudice which may be mobilized-against an accused person, often quite without anything that could be properly called adequate evidence of their guilt. These facts make the whole situation one which needs to be surrounded by as many safeguards as possible in order that no outstanding injustice may be committed.

Under these circumstances one can readily see how the independent examination and report of the psychiatrist might be not only illuminating but beneficent in its calming effect upon an otherwise unreasonable and agitated public mind, if for no other reason than because it might be utilized, intentionally or otherwise, by creating a delay in the proceeding sufficient to give the psychiatrist
his ch ance. I am sure I have known of a number of cases where the most terrible injustice resulted from false accusations. Some such cases have been tried in court; others have never reached trial.

Again, clearly there are people that will do what he said, claim to have been raped for notoriety or for purely vindictive purposes, however that is no reason to treat someone as ‘insane until proven sane’ – that’s as kooky as deciding someone is guilty until proven innocent. It’s just completely ass-backwards thinking. Such thinking should in no way be allowed in the legal system, especially with something as destructive to a person’s sense of self as rape – whether adult or child – because of the far-reaching and profound effects this can have on society.

Now, in case you didn’t know, psychiatrists were known (quite a number of them) for taking advantage of men, women and children under their care – sexually. At best, it was often overlooked that this kind of abuse, if not done by the pychiatrist himself, also went on by the ‘assistants’ or orderlies.

It was being exposed that this was happening, back at this time, and it was also beginning to be exposed that Catholic priests were oddly similar in this kind of power-mongering over sex behavior, as their neuvo inquisitioners were – the psychiatrists.

So, you see, psychiatry and the Catholics were both under attack for the same thing and it was true that they were like that. Not all of them, but enough for it to mess up their ‘images’ pretty badly – which is why I think you have Menninger and White brought in to this law book. They’re trying to slam down on the exposes’ – a kind of shuddering into silence approach.

Quite scary, actually.

There’s some other interesting things in the PDF scans, but now let’s move on to the source I finally found that proves Menninger did say what I quoted others on initially – which was usually quoted like this:

…traumatic only when connected with deep hostilities……but when the experience actually stimulates the child erotically, it would appear … that it may favor rather than inhibit the development of social capabilities and mental health in the so-called victims.

I found a book in the internet archive that actually gives us a real source for this quote. This book is called: Man and International Relations which cites that the direct quotations included are coming from another book, an actual book by Menninger called Love Against Hate, copyright 1942, chapter 13, pages 260-295.

Here’s the relevant text – full quote showing Menninger did say what others have quoted is in green.

It is an interesting corollary to this observation that the sexual approach of adults to children is associated with the most intense feelings of social disapproval; such episodes have not infrequently served as the basis for mob violence against the offender. The assumption is, of course, that children are irreparably ruined by such experiences.

Without intending in the least to justify or excuse such criminal behavior, I may nevertheless point out that in the cold light of scientific investigation no such devastating effects usually follow (a fact which I hope will be of some comfort to certain anguished parents). Two psychiatrists (Lauretta Bender and Abram Blau) recently made a careful follow-up study of such cases and concluded that children exposed to premature sexual experiences with adults frequently turn out to be “distinguished and unusually charming and attractive in their outward personalities.” 7

7 – Lauretta Bender and Abram Blau, “The Reaction of Children to Sexual Relations with Adults,” Am. J. Orthopsychiatry, 7:500-518.

The conclusions to be drawn from such observations need not be shocking; they simply bear out our contention that sexuality is not the evil and horrible thing it is generally conceived to be.

Such experiences are traumatic to the child only when connected with deep hostilities; the furtive and desperate nature of such attacks, combined with the attitude of society toward them, tends entirely in the direction of unbearably stimulating the child’s hostilities so that he conceives of sex as brutality.

But when the experience actually stimulates the child erotically, it would appear from the observations of the authors cited just above that it may favor rather than inhibit the development of social capabilities and mental health in the so-called victims.

– Man and International Relations: Contributions of the Social Sciences to the Study of Conflict and Integration by J. K. Zawodny, Volume II : Integration, section A: Personality Integration, chapter 1 Love, pps. 10, 11.

Here’s the cover page of the Zawodny book, and the two pages where the above quotes can be found. I have to say I find it pretty disgusting that what Menninger had to say is included in a chapter called Love.

Notes – Lauretta Bender is about one of the worst possible people to espouse as any kind of authority regarding children, given her brutal and vicious treatment of them in the name of ‘curing’ their so-called unacceptable behaviors. She is known for giving multiple electric shock treatments to children under the age of 5, which should give you some idea of her vindictive nuttiness. She was also an MKUltra doctor – which means she happily participated in some seriously nasty human experimentation.

From early 1940 to 1953, Dr. Lauretta Bender, a highly respected child neuropsychiatrist practicing at Bellevue Hospital in New York City, experimented extensively with electroshock therapy on children who had been diagnosed with “autistic schizophrenia.” In all, it has been reported that Bender administered electroconvulsive therapy to at least 100 children ranging in age from three years old to 12 years, with some reports indicating the total may be twice that number. One source reports that, inclusive of Bender’s work, electroconvulsive treatment was used on more than 500 children at Bellevue Hospital from 1942 to 1956, and then at Creedmoor State Hospital Children’s Service from 1956 to 1969.

[Bender’s earlier work with electroshock therapy had brought her into contact with several other prominent physicians who, at the time, were covert contractors with the CIA’s MK/ULTRA and Artichoke projects. Primary among these physicians were Drs. Harold A. Abramson, Paul Hoch, James B. Cattell, Joel Elkes, Max Fink, [also see this] Harris Isbell and Alfred Hubbard.]

… About the same time Dr. Bender was conducting her electroshock experiments, she was also widely experimenting on autistic and schizophrenic children with what she termed other “treatment endeavors.” These included use of a wide array of psycho-pharmaceutical agents, several provided to her by the Sandoz Chemical Co. in Basel, Switzerland, as well as Metrazol, sub-shock insulin therapy, amphetamines and anticonvulsants. Metrazol was a trade name for pentylenetetrazol, a drug used as a circulatory and respiratory stimulant. High doses cause convulsions, as discovered in 1934 by the Hungarian-American neurologist and psychiatrist Ladislas J. Meduna.

The almost immediate effects of Metrazol are shocking for many to witness: subjects will shake violently, twisting and turning. They typically arch, jerk and contort their bodies and grimace in pain. With Metrazol, as with electroshock, bone fractures – including broken necks and backs – and joint dislocations are not uncommon, unless strong sedatives are administered beforehand.

A November 1936 Time magazine article seriously questioned the benefits of Metrazol, citing “irreversible shock” as a “great danger.”

– 11 august 2010 Hidden Tragedy article

Notes: Dr. Bender greatly admired Dr. Max Fink, who is considered the ‘godfather’ of electro-shock therapy in the U.S. Fink was one of the people who joined the nascent (1947) Society of Biological Psychiatry, and was a major contributor. Other names that were involved with that society were Dr. Ewen Cameron (McGill University, Canada) and Dr. William Preston Wilson of Duke University – who was actually trained by Cameron, a monster in his own right who liked to put people in comas and electro-shock them repeatedly, part of what he euphemistically called ‘de-patterning’.

Bender and Fink