As part of the research for the article I’m currently working on for the World Government section of our reading Library, something interesting showed up.

During the time period of The Librarian postings coupled with the Veritas website back in the late 1990’s and early 2000’s, one of the theories being explored was that there was some sort of relationship between the scientology OT levels and the ability to exteriorize from one’s body to go ‘remote view’ locations and people.

In 1971 Ingo Swann was at the American Society of Psychical Research in New York, participating in a series of experiments being conducted. They were focusing on OOB or OOBE – meaning Out of Body and Out of Body Experiences, respectively.

On January 1, 1968 the sections 3, 4, 5, and 6 of the scientology OT (Operating Thetan) levels were released. The first completion of OT Section 3 happened just 3 days later on January 4.

A couple of months later, the first completions of all sections of the OT Levels (through OT VI) were highlighted in Auditor magazine, issue #35, 1968.


Scientologist and Sea Organization member David Ziff’s baby – Advance! magazine – later carried descriptions of what one could expect to gain from these OT (Operating Thetan) levels.

David Ziff

Nkambi David Ziff


OT III Expanded had been added in late 1969 and OT VII had been added in September 1970, as per Auditor magazine #58.


Advance! Issue 19 June/July 1973 –

Your Route to Operating Thetan


OT levels Advance iss 19 1973 OT levels Advance iss 19 1973 - 2

“Each OT Level is a miracle in itself.
One attains super-human abilities as a thetan…”


Particularly note OT Levels IV-VI

OT IV –  As an OT IV you will be an exterior being, fully certain of yourself.

OT V – You will do drills outside your body to become acquainted again with the physical universe as a thetan exterior.

OT VI – On this level you will regain your abilities as a thetan exterior to be where you want at will and be able to influence the universe of others.

OT VII – OT VII involves OT intention and OT communication. You will rehabilitate and regain your ability to project intention across a distance.


By 1969 scientologist Ingo Swann had become Clear #2231.

Auditor magazine Issue 50


In 1969 Ingo completed the OT levels – ergo he had attested he could do all the things listed up through OT 6.


Advance 53 OTS in action Ingo swann finished ot levels 1969


Ingo wrote an auto-biography in 1996 titled: Remote-Viewing The Real Story: An Autobiographical Memoir.

He described that in early October 1971, he began working with Dr. Karlis Osis at American Society for Psychical Research (ASPR). As I mentioned earlier, they were focusing on Out of Body Experiences (OOBE).

In Chapter 12 of his memoir, we find Swann saying –

My only reservation was that I did not have the least idea of how to float up to the ceiling. I was well aware of the famous OOB phenomena reported world-wide and since antiquity.

I had gotten all of the appropriate books, tried everything suggested in them, to little apparent avail.

Although many, including some of Osis’s other subjects, claimed they could “go OOB at will,” evidence of this was quite slim.

[…] if anyone could go OOB at will, then the world would certainly be a different place, and psychic spying in the OOB state would have already been incorporated into you know where. In 1971 out-of-body experiencing had not yet been hysterically hyped as it was soon to be.

I told Osis that I believed OOB to consist only of spontaneous factors, and usually within some kind of unusual situation, and that I did not know how to do it.

– On page 110 of this large PDF archiving all of Swann’s writings


So…the fabulous OT levels didn’t work.

Imagine that.

smugly_making_plans_-_imagine_dragons .

That cuts the legs out from under the proposition that the CIA took over Scientology to stop the fabulous OT levels. They were no more reliable than any other texts purportedly “teaching” how to do super-human feats.

Not to mention that Hubbard and Dianetics/Scientology were continuously working with the CIA from day one in 1950.

Jesse Prince once told Mike that most of the people that did the OT Levels up to OT VI (many of whom originally wrote “success stories” claiming they did the things you could supposedly do on these levels) later admitted they just “did the things in their mind.” They didn’t actually exteriorize.

There were people that did actually do some of the things described but if the OT levels had anything to do with it, it would have been more on the order of providing an environment that was perceived as “safe” to reveal such things. However, those few and far between people of which I speak were more often attacked or marshaled off the OT Levels in one way or another, once this was known.

This would tend to point to the fact that Hubbard’s OT Levels were less about rehabilitation of these abilities in people than they were about FINDING such people.

Put even more simply, they weren’t making people able to do anything, they were finding the ones who could do things already.

Mike has a few things to say today, so over to him.

From Mike McClaughry April 2, 2016

When I was first approached to join the Intelligence Bureau in 1973, I said I was not interested. So, they offered that I could go up to OT IV if I joined. I agreed and started my Intelligence Bureau training at USGO in Los Angeles in the summer of 1973.

I finished the training in December 1973, but I was still auditing on the Clearing Course at that time. Terry Milner was DG I US and he wanted me to go on post immediately. I said the agreement was that I could do up to OT IV. Terry said that Mary Sue Hubbard did not want me to do the OT levels, she wanted me to go on post right away. So, I said I would do the OT levels rapidly. Terry correctly observed that I would quit if they broke the agreement, so he allowed me to continue auditing.

I solo audited 14 hours a day in the month of January 1974. I finished OT III and OT III expanded in that time. One day I had finished auditing and laid down on the couch. I was not in session and was not even thinking about OT III. It was then I was hit by a force in the middle of my back. My body arched and looked like an upside down U on the couch, with only my feet and head touching the couch.

I was outside of my body, across the room near the ceiling, looking at my body on the couch. I started to drift around and decided I should get back in the body. When I was back in my head, my eyes were closed but I could still see the room vividly. Then I thought “I’m never going to be able to sleep again if this continues” – then it all stopped.

One thing to know about this is that it had nothing to do with the OT levels. It had to do with a friend of mine.

I wrote up my experience and put it in my auditing folder. I was then told to attest to OT III expanded. Terry Milner called me in and said that he and Mary Sue wanted me to stop now, and go on post. I did not challenge them again, and went on post.

Looking at it now, obviously Terry had read my experience, knew I wasn’t making it up, reported it to Mary Sue and they decided they better get me off that level – and fast.  After all, it’s not like they actually wanted to encourage people who could actually do these things. What if I went off and spied on them… you get the idea. They had the same problem with it that the CIA did.

In 1997 Virginia was on OT 7 when she found an HCOB that said sec checking of people on OT 7 was not to be done. RTC and Flag tried to get her to back down but she held her ground and went off the level when they refused to apply that HCOB. Consequently, I started an extensive investigation into the Scientologists refusing to apply the HCOB.

One day I was sleeping in, when I was hit by a force that knocked my body up in the air above the bed. It was that friend of mine again. He said “You’ve been sleeping long enough, get up and finish the report about Virginia and OT 7.”

My shoulder hurt for a couple of months after that.

I would like to make clear that the person I call my friend, is not Ron Hubbard.


“THEY keep track of all notable psychics. They have for years.”

Ingo Swann quoting Ruth (Hagy) Brod, Remote Viewing:The Real Story, Chapter 22


The Vatican’s miracle commission –

How does the Catholic Church decide what constitutes a miracle?

It’s a multistep process including an investigation by a specially designated Vatican office culminating in a final decision by the pope himself.


Since the 16th century, the Pope’s cardinals have been using a so-called miracle commission.

”There has been talk of the Vatican having a kind of ’CIA’, which investigates alleged miracles.

[…] According to Catholic theology, not only God, but also Satan, can bring about unexplainable phenomena. The Vatican’s theologians therefore scrutinise all testimonies to eliminate the possibility that Satan has been involved in the mysterious circumstances.


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Join the conversation! 2 Comments

  1. As always this is insightful and worthy of reading. Thank you again for your dedication to this arena and others. Look forward to reading more from you. Scott


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All that Spy Stuff, Historical Research


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